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6:th-Mar-2014, 09:41:34 (This post was last modified: 31:st-Mar-2022, 19:29:03 by Rusty2009.)
Just to give you a table of part numbers and prices for 5-door.
Those in red are the part numbers I needed there are a few options depending on trim etc of car.
Good luck with this one. It's one I'm interested in when I originally ordered my car I had spec'd AFL's but the car ended up been delayed by another 2 months So took the car they offered me that was the same as what I ordered but had leather fitted instead of AFL's.
Is there any way possible to fit a HID kit to my 5door with normal halogen H7r bulb headlights. It would seem that there a lot of kits being advertised with super canbus units, and they make me think it may have become possible, to fit these and not have bulb out warnings.
Migwell030744 Wrote:Is there any way possible to fit a HID kit to my 5door with normal halogen H7r bulb headlights. It would seem that there a lot of kits being advertised with super canbus units, and they make me think it may have become possible, to fit these and not have bulb out warnings.
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I don't recommend anyone to fit HIDS into a halogen unit.
I did speak with a company a while ago about the possibility of using a Xenon unit with HIDS and they said it was possible quite how without modification to the unit I don't know after all you want it to work on a halogen system.
Hi Rusty. Just had a reply from lush lighting city. He has fitted a set in the last week, to a car like mine, he said there no problems with flickering or bulb out warnings, etc. They need to be H7R bulbs though. He even sent my a photograph of the car with them fitted & working. Migwell
fitting HIDS with out projector lenses is not recommended
the light pattern from the HIDS with out projector lenses will be thrown
all over the ROAD and will have a scatted looking pattern
you will be blinding on coming traffic.
I had thought of installing a HID kit in my car as above but after tucpal's warning I looked further into it and came up with this about the subject. I am NOT now going to do the upgrade. and can't aford to swap the whole headlight system for projectors.
The latest directive from VOSA includes their view that unless strict criteria are met, after-market HID kits may not be legal.
There is some confusion regarding the change in legislation towards HID kits. Although we are still trying to determine the full details here is some text that may help! Many thanks to the MX3 Forum guys who bought it to my attention
Here is the relevant text -
"In the Department's view it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits, for converting conventional Halogen headlamps to HID Xenon. If a customer wants to convert his vehicle to Xenon HID he must purchase completely new Xenon HID headlamps. The reason for this is that the existing lens and reflector are designed around a Halogen filament bulb, working to very precise tolerances. If one places a HID "burner" (bulb) in the headlamp, the beam pattern will not be correct, there will be glare in some places and not enough light in other places within the beam pattern.
The following is the legal rationale:
The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.
Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.
However new vehicles have HID headlamps. This is because they comply to European type approval Regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These are to ECE Regulation 98 (for the HID headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (Lighting Installation on the vehicle).
For the after market, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because it is only applicable for new vehicles. However we feel that saying "HID is banned in the after market" would not be reasonable. Instead we should make analogies with new vehicles. It would be reasonable to require HID in the after market to meet the same safety standards as on new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.
Therefore a HID headlamp unit sold in the after market should:
1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.
2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).
3. Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.
In practice this means:
1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.
2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.
3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.
Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.
In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above."
If you are found to be using lights which don't comply, in all likelihood, you may be reported to the Procurator Fiscal and may end up with a fine.
The above seems to be a precursor to the new MOT criteria slated to come into existance on New Years Eve 2011 (for 2012), this is from the MOT Testers VOSA bullitin explaining the new EU MOT regulations which were ratified this year, and includes amongst other things, the testing of wiring harnesses, the testing for illegal HID kits and, wait for it, chipped ECU's, whatever that means The article is quite long, but here is a small extract .....
"As far as changes to the test content are concerned, VOSA has already been analysing the requirements of the new Directive and working out how to implement them. We started this earlier in the year by talking with representatives of the MOT trade at our regular Trade User Group and VTS Council meetings. Both VOSA and the Department for Transport (DfT) are keen to ensure that any changes to the test are introduced in as practical a way as possible, keeping the burden on the trade to a minimum and ideally keeping the changes cost neutral.
In many cases, the changes shouldn’t necessarily lead to an increase in average test times. A good example is the malfunction indicator lamps on the dashboard that indicate defective electronic power steering, electronic stability control and secondary restraint systems. Testers already check the dashboard for other lamps, so no extra time would be required for this addition to the test.
Electrical wiring and batteries are now included in the test’s scope, but testers already check the vehicle structure where wiring is secured – often along the same routes as other testable items, such as brake pipes in the engine compartment. So again, this doesn’t look like an additional burden on the tester. In the pre-computerisation days, testers often (wrongly) failed vehicles for insecure batteries, so they must have been looking at them then! Now, it means that when we implement the new Directive, vehicles can legitimately fail for battery insecurity, for no extra tester effort.Other items – such as headlamp bulb and unit incompatibility, headlamp levelling devices and illegal engine ‘chipping’ – will need further thought before we can get a workable solution for MOT stations."
For the mot side of things, hid's do not require headlamp levelling or washing system to be fitted. But if they are fitted, then they must work. Having said that, the levelling system can be faulty and still pass. As it's almost impossible to test the levelling side of things during an mot, the benefit of doubt goes to the vehicle presenter!
Strange thing is, when on refresher courses we get told that the lighting regs are the same for mot's and construction and use regs. Which really doesn't make sense now with the way hids are tested for an mot!
nice posts there
i agree if you can fit the projectors they will look more genuine
and i am sure the light pattern will be much better
some mot places will pass them others are not so nice about them
but HIDS with out reflectors is just a don't do it
you wont fool anyone and blinding oncoming traffic is just not ok
Just a quick update to say I've spent the day fitting the front levelling sensor and getting all wiring into the car, I'll start hooking it all up next week.
Just a quick update to say I got the AFL module all wired up and the passenger side all back together, Got all the wires run to the drivers side for the BCM ready to hook up and also got the Wires ready to hook up to the fuse box.
Have you tryed the Xenon's on there own with out your head lights being plugged in ?
So they do light up but they do not move and adjust when they turn on ?
do they turn with the steering wheel ?
tucpal Wrote:Have you tryed the Xenon's on there own with out your head lights being plugged in ?
So they do light up but they do not move and adjust when they turn on ?
do they turn with the steering wheel ?
I wasn't in the mood to play musical cars and to take the bumper off just to unplug the lights, I will do though,
I'm fairly sure it's down to the fuse board though, as the board I have is for Halogen units not xenon's hence why my headlamp washers haven't worked.
The Right unit did move before taking the video and when taking the video the left one did move I didn't start the car (it was flashing errors like mad) service power steering (so that would lead me to believe it picked up the AFL module) and service a couple of others also told me I was missing left dipped bean (despite that light was on non stop).
Oh my @od how much have you spent so far. I get the feeling you are going to be well hacked off if you need to spend that on top of what you have already spent. I do hope you don't need to though.
It will be a new fuse board that is needed, the board I have doesn't support CE4 = Washer Headlamp High Pressure or T95 = Headlamp control beam directional (AFL).
I'll be getting a price tomorrow for the new board and hopefully order it.
Rusty2009 Wrote:It will be a new fuse board that is needed, the board I have doesn't support CE4 = Washer Headlamp High Pressure or T95 = Headlamp control beam directional (AFL).
I'll be getting a price tomorrow for the new board and hopefully order it.
I'm sorting out a new board, the place I'm hoping to get it from haven't supplied one for retro fitting and don't want to supply the wrong board, it's back and forth with emails at the moment but hopefully soon it will be sorted.
I'm getting nowhere re a new board All I keep getting is I already have the board and that it covers halogen/Xenon despite they can't answer why they list over and over with different options.
So removed the halogen lights removed all wires for the halogen system from the fuse board.
Put all the xenon wires in and hooked up to the BCM, I then paid for an hours use of GDS and found I could talk to the Headlamp/ AFL control module (If not installed you get no communication error).
I could control the up to down left to right also could change the lighting set up I could also relearn the leveling sensors.
With that In mind I paid for an hour of TIS was able to program the Headlamp control with the up to date software was also able to set up the module.
So from all this I think it should be a case of A VCI code to have the system fully working, sadly I've not got the spare ££'s to request the VCI's but I also want to look abit deeper into that first.
That's very interesting progress and more importantly drops the price a bit of the retrofit. So with the messing around you've done today did you get the headlight washers working?
27:th-Oct-2014, 12:41:41 (This post was last modified: 2:nd-Apr-2015, 12:39:44 by Rusty2009.)
Right I have a major update for all.
I spent the last few days checking and over checking the wiring I double checked the online wiring and pins and found a few difference I made the relevant changes and and still nothing.
Convinced it was a software and 100% sure the BCM needed a VCI code on Sunday I requested a VCI code myself.
This morning at 07:55 I got a VCI code from GM to program the BCM.
I programmed the BCM and now have a full working AFL system.
So to all those's who say it can't be done please look at this as proof that it can be done.
Thanks to Tucpal who helped with going over the wiring for it.
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